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rockfish
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CNC toolroom lathes ???
Assuming you had a very good condition Southwestern Industries TRAK lathe or HAAS TL1 or TL2, what kind of realistic, repeatable tolerances can you expect to hold on a CNC toolroom lathe with an Aloris toolpost ???
Still thinking about a CNC lathe of some kind, and rolling over all kinds of different ideas. For the most part, with my current customers and the type of work I do, a toolroom type of CNC lathe would make a lot of sense, but not if I couldn't repeatably hold tight tolerances with it. I am very interested in doing some production work down the road, but right now, my customers are NOT production customers....so the toolroom type of CNC lathe might make some sense.
Ideally, I would like to start off by getting a toolroom type lathe, then within a year or so, hopefully step up to a turning center of some kind.
Frank
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You can hold the same tolerance you could with a manual lathe. The same rules apply. Take one finish pass, measure the diameter, adjust the tool offset, take the final finish pass. No reason you could not hold tolerances of a few tenths with some diligence.
CNC lets you do so much more. For example, what if your part has a slight taper due to part deflection? What would you do on a manual lathe? Get out the tool post grinder? On a CNC, you just add in a quick variable to your tool path to take out the taper. With CNC you no longer need form tools or ball turning attachments.
If you plan to get a turning center soon why not just get it now and skip the tool room machine? I do all kinds of one off tool room work in an enclosed turning center. Having a turret and full flood coolant is a must IMHO. I used to do this stuff on an open manual lathe. I find I am faster and have better results just using a turning center. The only issue is getting time on the machine so as not to interfere with production.
CBlair
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Frank,
I have a Haas TL-1, and while some people who have the similar machine and use gang tooling claim they can keep .0002-.0003 I find that with the Aloris toolpost I tend to get about +/- .0005 pretty consistently. That is on the same tool and similar cycles or on the same part. However when I try to keep tolerances less than that I will find myself 'hunting' for the middle.
I find it works best to do all the roughing and then keep the same tool in the holder and run all the parts again with just that one tool. Usually ends up with a smaller size curve that way.
I have heard that the MultiFix toolholders repeat better. I would also think that for the extra money in a SWI or Romi machine you would get better accuracy than from the TL-1.
I do like the machine for speed and ease of use but part to part accuracy better than .0005 is not what it is best for. Hard to beat though for what you can do for the price of the machine.
Charles
rockfish
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The problem, I think, is the size of machine I would have to buy and the affordability.
20' machining length would be too short. I run out of travel on a 36' bed lathe all the time.
I run a lot of LONG parts. Lot's of spindles and shafts that would be too long for all but the biggest (and most expensive) turning centers.
Like I said, I would like to get into production work with more manageable pieces, but that's not where my work is coming from now.....and I don't know how smart it is to buy a machine based on work that I 'hope' to get. I have to base this purchase on what makes sense with the work I have right now.
Frank
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I am in the same boat as you and I've decided that upon my research that the cost of these manual/cnc lathes warrants buying a good used full time cnc lathe with turret. Once you learn the control it seems like it would be much more useful even on one offs and prototyping. Sorrry , I didn't really answer your question.lol. Good luck in your search.
Stainless
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Originally Posted by rockfish
Assuming you had a very good condition Southwestern Industries TRAK lathe or HAAS TL1 or TL2, what kind of realistic, repeatable tolerances can you expect to hold on a CNC toolroom lathe with an Aloris toolpost ???
Still thinking about a CNC lathe of some kind, and rolling over all kinds of different ideas. For the most part, with my current customers and the type of work I do, a toolroom type of CNC lathe would make a lot of sense, but not if I couldn't repeatably hold tight tolerances with it. I am very interested in doing some production work down the road, but right now, my customers are NOT production customers....so the toolroom type of CNC lathe might make some sense.
Ideally, I would like to start off by getting a toolroom type lathe, then within a year or so, hopefully step up to a turning center of some kind.
Frank
Can't really comment on the lathes that you mentioned, except to state that we looked at the Southwest TRAK lathe when we bought our Romi M20. The Romi was much heavier, seemed more solid machine. That was one of the determining factors when we purchased it instead of the TRAK. We bought it with an electric turret, but it was delivered with an Aloris on it, the turret was delivered and installed a few days later. Alotis is in the toolroom.
As for tolerances, I hold +/-.0001 regularly on it. I do treat it like a manual lathe as for when I'm getting set up. Program to leave a finish pass with a different tool, sneak up on things. But once your happy you've got the tool pushoff sorted out, go like hell. No worries. Watch your numbers as your batch goes through, adjusting offsets by the tenth if you need it. Makes little short runs a piece of cake. If you move the tailstock, I'd still sneak up on a tight part, but I'd do that with anything.
Only thing I have to watch for ,you wouldn't as your talking about using the Aloris. The Duplomatic turret is a little weak knee-ed in my opinion. You can't really lean on it hard like a 'real' turret. The tool disc Romi mounts on theirs isn't pinned to the actual turret mechanism. Only bolted. This makes it possible to 'slip' if you crash, but it also keeps you from knocking the guts out of the turret. Judgement call on the engineers part, but with the Aloris, you'd have a slight chance of the tool not registering to the half-tenth anyway, so in reality, a fair trade. My 2 cents worth.
Ox
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